“We have the capacity to build a wall to separate people, but now we are building a wall to bring everyone together”

In our interview with Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu, the founder of the "Taiwan-Reyhanli Centre for World Citizens", we discussed the benefits provided to our citizens during the earthquake period and the design process of the Center.

After the “Mimarlık Ne İşe Yarar?” Conference organized by IstanbulSMD, held in Istanbul, we conducted an interview with Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu. Dr. Chiu continues his work as a volunteer architect and director at the “Taiwan-Reyhanli Centre for World Citizens” established in Hatay and was also one of the speakers at the conference.

Ada Umay Cansız: You have completed your bachelor’s degree at Chung Yuan Christian University in Taiwan, your master’s degree at Columbia University, and your doctorate at the University of Melbourne. You have worked as an architectural historian, exhibition curator/coordinator, competition organizer, and full-time academic at Bilkent University and the Munich Technical University. So, you have been in many parts of the world and enriched your architectural education with different architectural styles. What were the advantages and disadvantages of receiving education in different geographical locations on your perspective towards architecture?

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: I traveled to many different parts of the world, which has positioned me in a somewhat neutral cross-cultural position. This experience has allowed me to become more sensitive and open-minded. It allows me to see different ways of life and different qualities of life. It has also allowed me to recognize that we all live in gradually divided societies. “It doesn’t matter where we are, inequality becomes more pronounced. So that’s why I feel — it doesn’t matter whether it’s in Australia, Taiwan, America, Germany, Finland or Turkey — we have the same problems regarding architectural practice and education.

“We build for those who have money, those who have power”

We build for those who have money, those who have power. We never build for those who have nothing, those who have no national identity. But why? Why our profession became like this? And I say there must be a reason, maybe scientific utilitarianism, or perhaps capitalist consumerism, or maybe it’s the result of narrow-minded professionalism. We are architects; we only design and supervise building construction- this is everything, and this is professionalism. In scientific utilitarianism, everything is about scoring. In capitalist consumerism, everything is about payment. We don’t do anything without payment. We built buildings for people having money to have more money, having power to have more power. So because of these reasons, we live in a gradually divided society.

Ada Umay Cansız: Currently, you are an academic at Bilkent University. How did you decided to come to Turkey and become an academic here?

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: My PhD is about the Danish architect Jørn Utzon, the designer of the Sydney Opera House. Utzon traveled all around the world, and due his travels, all “exotic” ideas and inspirations came to his mind ans soul. This made his life and work very rich, very different.

I came to Turkey two months after we experienced a military crime, and after there were many suicide bombings in Turkey. But I have said, “I have never been to Turkey. I have never seen or studied Islamic architecture.” Turkey was an adventure to me. Turkey was new to me. And I must say thank you to Havva Meltem Gürel, who was the Chair of the Deparment of Architecture during that time. She offered me the tenure-track position and allowed me to live and work at Bilkent. Also, Bilkent gave me a lot of freedom to conduct the work related to the Center while I was an academician.

Two years ago I left Bilkent. I knew that I could not teach anymore because the responsibilities of the Center became very heavy. I couldn’t do two full-time jobs at the same time. My position at the Centre is equal to three or four full time jobs. So that’s why I say I have no chance to be an academician anymore. I need to take care of the Centre. My colleagues and I must design, build, and further manage the Centre from the beginning to the end. I needed to continue my adventure and explore the new Turkey in my life.

Ada Umay Cansız: You established the “Taiwan-Reyhanli Centre for World Citizens” with your students from Bilkent University. Working as volunteers, you all created a facility that played a crucial role during the Hatay earthquake. How was the team-building process with your students? What was their approach to the subject and what was your experience of working as a team?

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: I remember that almost six years ago, there was a second-year student. One day he asked me, “Cho, my family has no connections, my family has no money, so that’s why I cannot find a summer internship in Ankara or Istanbul. Cho, can you help me find a summer internship?” So I said “Why don’t you come with me to Reyhanli, to conduct the Centre? But Recep, there have been suicide bombings,” and he said, “Cho, I am not afraid.” I said, “Sure, that’s good. Next week I’ll buy a ticket, and we’ll go to Hatay together with your classmates.”

“We need to go to the West. We cannot survive while doing this kind of project”

Today, that student still works with us. Like him, Students usually are very brave, very generous, and they are willing to try. But their families, friends, schools, and even the society are not ready for this. So many of them said, “We can’t continue to do this. There is no hope in Reyhanli. We need to go to west. We cannot survive while doing this kind of project.” So no one believed there will be something coming out from Reyhanli.

So many students came to Reyhanli, but today only one student works at Reyhanli. This is why we are very sad and very worried. We need a new and different kind of approach to architectural practice. Architecture should embrace a needed social dimension. Architecture should take care of those in need and bring back the equality to human life. We know that we should do this, but most of us don’t.

Ada Umay Cansız: Taiwan government donated funds to establish the “Taiwan-Reyhanli Centre for World Citizens”. Why did the Taiwan government want to develop a project in Turkey, and how did this idea come about?

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: We are never out of the threat of war in Taiwan, and Taiwan is a place built by refugees. My grandparents were refugees. In 1949, they immigrated to Taiwan because of the Civil War in China. My grandmother passed away 2 years ago. Before she passed away, she had never told me what she had experienced when she was 16 years old, when she landed in Taiwan. But in Reyhanli, I see young girls, so I know what my grandmother had experienced.

The refugee crisis is not just the responsibility of Turkey; it is the responsibility of everyone. It doesn’t matter whether I come from Taiwan or America. Everyone can see the situation in Reyhanli, how many people are suffering every day, how many people are without enough food. So, you feel that you need to do something.

“Where is the justice? There is no justice”

Let me tell you a true story. Four years ago, when I was supervising construction in Reyhanli, my colleague Walid was driving the car in a hot summer afternoon. Suddenly, he stopped the car and opened the window because we saw a Syrian woman. She was wearing a hijab and holding a naked baby, trying to find something to eat in a large trash container. You know that we throw everything inside trash containers in Turkey. You can find anything inside a trash container. Walid took food from the car and gave it to the woman. That afternoon, I asked myself, “What was this mom searching for? Why does her baby have no food to eat? Where is the justice?” There is no justice. The only chance we have is that we still can do something is now.

So that’s why the Taiwan government donated 400,000 US dollars. During that time, we didn’t know what kind of building we should build, and secondly, we didn’t have a budget to manage this building either from Taiwan or Turkey. So once the building was finished, nothing happened.

I had never designed a building before. The Centre could be the last building in my life. I knew that I could fail, but I said, “Let me try once. Let me design, supervise construction, and even let me collect money to manage the building by myself, to give a chance to build hope for people in need.” Because we all understand that once a building is finished, we can give it to the local municipality. They may have no clear ideas about how to apply very limited resources to restore equality of life on-site. That’s why I wanted to try. I may fail someday because I don’t have government or any big foundation supporting me. I work with my colleagues very hard for collecting every cent of money through crowdfunding to make the Center survival. It has been very difficult, but, I never feel regretful.

Ada Umay Cansız: As you witnessed firsthand, the Hatay earthquake caused extensive destruction. As mentioned in the previous question, the Centre sheltered so many people, and remarkably, the facility remained undamaged during the earthquake. This building, which demonstrated resilience in the face of such an extreme natural disaster, was developed before the earthquake. What were the strategies employed to ensure the facility’s endurance during extreme conditions? Did your geographical and cultural background, coming from an island country like Taiwan which experiences many natural disasters, have an impact on establishing these strategies?

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: When I was a third-year student in 1999, we had a devastating earthquake in Taiwan. One night, it killed 2000 people. It was a very critical moment. The younger generation of architects in Taiwan suddenly realized the social dimension of architecture and what the social responsibility of an architect is. I grew up in that kind of phenomenon. As architects, we have a lot of responsibility to society, especially when we are facing a natural disaster.

Seven years ago, when I started working in Reyhanli, we did a site analysis. I called many people in Reyhanli and said, “We are in the middle of an earthquake zone, and the in-situ concrete on the site in Reyhanli is not up to standard. None of the buildings are qualified. The quantity of metal mesh is not enough, and the binding between metal mesh is not strong enough. Even the quality of the concrete is wrong.” No one believed me, and they even told me, “Cho, in the last one hundred years no earthquake has happened. You think too much.”

“We have the capacity to build a wall to separate people, but now we are building a wall to bring everyone together”

We asked the civil engineer to come and set the proper foundation; otherwise, the building would collapse. The civil engineer said, “After 10 meters of digging and analyzing the soil, there is rock. So that means you need to put the concrete piles 10 meters deep.” Just putting the concrete piles costs 400,000 US dollars because the building is very big; the interior area of the 7000 square meter building is 2500 square meters. That means the total construction budget is only for the underground construction. What should I do? Then my students said, “Cho, people produce concrete blocks in Reyhanli.” These blocks are 4 meters high, 2 meters wide, and weigh 11 tons each. They are very strong and can easily withstand earthquakes. So that’s why we used the concrete blocks. Between the concrete blocks, we put a second layer of concrete slabs to reinforce them. Additionally, we made sure that the roof is as light as possible so that the whole building can withstand earthquakes, suicide bombings, and rocket attacks. And more importantly, there is a political message: we have the capacity to build a wall to separate people, but now we are building a wall to bring everyone together. Without the creativity of my students, the Center could not have been built.

Ada Umay Cansız: In the border area, which is in a very fragile political, economic and social situation, you developed a radical and bold project. Since the involvement of border walls in the project, the Center has had a strong philosophical discourse. You have been engaged in a close relationship with the community since its construction. What was the community’s reaction and approach to the project?

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: Seven years ago, no one believed that anything could be built. There was a parkland, and people said, “How can this be a center for Syrians?”

But last year, during the earthquake, people changed their perception. They believe that the Center never collapses. The Center will always open its doors immediately to take care of everyone on site. People started to understand that this building is different. When there is no electricity, no water, and no government or institution is functioning, the Center opens its doors. Now people understand the purpose of building the Centre; more children come to enjoy the educational activities, and more women join us to have a part-time job. People believe the Centre now, but this just takes time. Ambitions take patience, so we need time to prove our sincerity and integrity. So that is why, for seven years, we only did a very small project in Reyhanli.

Ada Umay Cansız: When describing your career and architectural vision, you mention your desire to build a reliable community and architecture, and you develop innovative projects towards this goal. However, people are cautious and lack confidence in every aspect. Have you achieved your goal of creating a reliable community at the Center?

“We are just trying to make a story to survive”

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: No, I didn’t. The Centre has no way to transform society. Even if we build ten or a hundred of this type of building… The crisis that we faced is very big. I must say that crises are increasing even more. What we do is just deliver a very humble and small hope and ask them not to give up so soon.

My life or the life of the Center can be very short, and I always tell my colleagues, “By the time we count to ten, we may all disappear. Even the Center may disappear. But we are just trying to make a story and make it continued, to inspire the younger generation. Only stories will transform the mentality of people, and only when the mentality is transformed, then the society will be transformed. We have no capacity to change society; we will just leave a story.”

Today, regardless of whether you are Christian or Muslim, the stories have been written one thousand or two thousand years ago. After so many years, stories still inspire us to be better human beings with sympathy and empathy through self-sacrifice. That’s how civilization continues.

Ada Umay Cansız: I want to revisit the inclusion of border walls in the project. This is a highly radical and powerful statement. However, when I first heard about it, I had questions about how it could be legally possible. When you presented this project, how did the approval process unfold from the perspectives of Turkey and Syria? Could you discuss the legal challenges of incorporating such a critical aspect into an architectural project?

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: I have never designed a building; I am not a licensed architect. I am an architectural historian. So I asked the municipality, “Please, we need to hire a licensed architect to go through all the registration processes.” And they told me, “Cho, this is our land and this is our building. We will manage this building by ourselves. We don’t need!”

“You will be the craziest mayor in the history of modern Turkey!”

So there was no legal problem; we only had a political problem. As long as you convince your community, they will agree and they will help you. When I said that I want to use a concrete block, everyone was shocked in the mayor’s office. They said, “How dare you use a concrete block? If you use a concrete block, everyone will understand that Reyhanli is next to a border, Reyhanli has a refugee crisis, suicide bombings, and rocket attacks.” So I told people in the municipality, “This is Reyhanli. What is wrong about it? If we can use the border wall, that means we can tell people that we will bring people together and we will survive together. Because we have the intelligence and generosity to bring everyone together and build the centre together. More importantly, this Center will become the craziest center in the history of modern Turkey. So Mr. Mayor, you will be the craziest mayor in the history of modern Turkey.” Then the Mayor said, “I like this idea! Let’s do it!”

So, I don’t know how, but there is a magic in Reyhanli in general and in the municipality in particular. I explained all my concerns only about public interests by discussing budget, construction, and quality of architecture. They were very kind because they see me as a foreigner and professor. But, in secret, they tell my colleagues, “Don’t tell Cho, because sometimes – even when you translate from English to Turkish- we still don’t understand what Cho is talking about. We are trying our best to understand your translations of what Cho is talking about, but we still have no clue. However, we continuously believe in his visions here, so we allow him to do it.”

Ada Umay Cansız: We see a metal roof shell when we focus on the structure itself. Also modern forms presenting the shared history, culture and religion between varied groups of communities. The design is quite effective in its context, however, Reyhanli is subjected to quite hot conditions climate-wise. How did you address the issues of heat and insulation when using this material?

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: It is a very light structure. We put a very light steel membrance as the roof form and applied transparent PC wave panels on the soffit of the roof. The panels created a gap as an insulation layer with the roof and allowed the hot air to rise. We further applied electronic fans on the top end of the roof to suck the hot air out. It reduces the indoor temperature by 7 degrees compared to the outdoor temperature.

We used the cheapest materials and tried to find the best way to do everything. Moreover, the PC panel works as the ceiling, lighting system, and decoration, making the indoor space resemble as a space shuttle. People asked me where we should go via this shuttle, and I said, “A place with hopes.”

Ada Umay Cansız: Thank you very much. I feel very lucky to have interviewed you, and I think everyone needs to hear about this incredible project and your incredible vision.

Dr. Chen-Yu Chiu: Thank you so much. We have never expect this, we are just trying our best.

Taiwan-Reyhanlı Centre for World Citizens